Assembly and Research System

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by MoltonMontro, May 21, 2014.

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How do you feel about this suggestion?

Poll closed Jun 21, 2014.
  1. I love the thought of it, nothing wrong.

    83.3%
  2. I dislike the thought of needing so many resources to go through the stages. Otherwise, great!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I dislike the idea completely!

    8.3%
  4. I'll be fine, ONLY IF the config part is added also.

    8.3%
  5. Other (Thoughts Posted in Comments)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    MoltronMontro, I do like the concept and don't mind the simplicity at all. A good idea is a good idea, and we will need a lot of these if the tech system is going to work out.

    My own idea about the tech tree is every new node is like a mission that needs to be completed in order to progress. I'm not entirely sure about its mechanics, but maybe an achieved milestone (like launching your first orbital satellite) cold be saved as a token that's transferred to an R&D Station? Each R&D Station would be unique, and presumably is a group of player only rewarded once for the same token/milestone (so 5 player can't simply launch an orbital satellite each for a simple brute-force through the early tech tree on the same station). So milestones are in that context essentially level caps.

    This could actually work well with a the concept of backing up your entire tech tree and its respective milestones in a tech book (or some other type of storage media). Namely, if you lost your current R&D Station or wanted to transfer your technology to another one, it would be no problems.

    Though yet again, details regarding the actual tier 1 tech tree and its respective milestones still needs to be worked out.


    On a sidenote, early version of GC used to have (or maybe they are still there) something called 'Galactic Level', which is seen in this cropped picture ripped from YogLabs - Lift Off!:

    [​IMG]

    I have no ideas about its intended mechanics though.


    Anyhow, I've given the concept of hardware upgrade some thought. Or more specifically, the EVA suit:


    [​IMG]


    It's an initial attempt at elaborating modular and configurable space suits. There's a free slot for each suit piece, which are together previewed as a 3D model in the black window to the left. It's infact not that different from the current GC's inventory.

    Among the new features is a separate page for each suit piece. In this concept is the torso/chestplate page open. Hence there will be "chestplate" specific module slots visible. Here's my thoughts regarding it:

    - The parachute and backpack thingy (EVA-pack maybe?) is kind of there as fillers.

    - Oxygen tanks would be tedious considering the current system. Although, perhaps a worn space suit could be in direct interface with an Oxygen Compressor via a 'Refill Suit' button? In that case there would be no need for manual removal of your oxygen tanks whenever a refill is required.

    - To provide your suit defensive properties, I thought you maybe could just integrate a regular piece of armor into the suit? That's exactly what I mean with the chestplate shaped icon in the middle. While the suit itself might never actually break, maybe that piece of armor would retain its own respective armor values and durability points?

    - The display gadget to the right is meant to be a wrist computer inspired by one of Ezer's ideas from another topic. The idea is you can install a wrist display on your suit that grants an enhanced HUD (like enabling a minimap through an established orbital satellite). Maybe the computer can be upgraded separately, or it could depend on other sensor modules, like an oxygen indicator for the helmet.

    When it comes to visual customization, well, I'm still considering how it could ideally be done.
     
  2. radyjko

    radyjko Member

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    Please no space suits! I like current sytem where you can wear armor and space gear independently! XD
     
  3. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    Since potential milestones and tech nodes are a subject up to change, I'll stay more basic with the concept designs.

    Here's a basic example on how milestone's could be organized:


    [​IMG]


    The category 'Space' is for endeavors not bound to a specific world. The category 'Moon' and 'Mars' is for its own respective milestones. After that there could be a category for the 'Jovian System'.

    The typical first step for any players would be launching an orbital satellite, but I'm not entirely sure what the player should be supposed to do after that. I don't think it's a good idea launching test flights of capsules or getting manned missions into empty space just for the sake of gaining milestones. Nevertheless, I think lander probes should be featured, but I'm uncertain if they should be required to progress. Perhaps they could be skipped entirely by their manned counterpart, but would also have its drawbacks.

    I'm still thinking of how the scoring system should work and how it's logically invested into the tech tree.

    MoltonMontro, do you feel happy with the concept of milestone scoring being translated into points for unlocking/researching new nodes in the tech tree? I'm feeling concerned for having neglected some of your original ideas.
     
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  4. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    My original concept was more over achievements, but I added time and construction for the sake of any others who disliked the thought of achievements to get points. Since milestones are like achievements basically, I see no problem with it and greatly support it. :)
     
  5. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    When I first started, I thought that realistically, you'd learn how to advance by learning about a celestial body, such as samples and such. But, that seemed like a boring objective to do just to advance, it also complicates things.

    I don't think any objectives should have to be done in a specific order, besides ones that require something else to function. This would allow you not to have to land a probe to progress, but also not get points.

    Setting up space stations over planets could be done for points also, don't you think? Also, we could be really generous and say "Completed 7 Milestones, Milestone" But that just seems ludicrous.

    On to the design. Though it appears to be able to be used when there's only 3 places, and a scroll bar could be added, it does seem like it would get quite crowded in the future, like the dimension selection GUI, which is why I(, think I) suggested the Galaxy Map functioning as the dimension selection GUI. Though I also believe tabs wouldn't be the answer for this, do to the severe lack of space of putting so much stuff on one machine, and the many tabs already on the machine. It could be increasingly tough to view the milestones, especially if you can do them in any order, for the most part. I don't see an easy solution to this.
     
  6. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    Also, for the backpack thing on the upgrade tab GUI you posted, that could be used for (GalactiCraft only, unless support added) "jetpacks" / tethers. But that's a different topic, slightly. Then the armor slot could work with vanilla and galacticraft armors, but I see a major problem that would happen with other mods.

    Other mods add armor, and that armor just gives you defense. So, no problem'o! But, what happens when it's a jetpack, from modular powersuits, or has special properties? There'd be a problem with it, especially if you had 2 jetpacks on at once.
     
  7. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    It's good to hear our ideas have stayed in similar terms. It's enough I pretty much hijacked this thread with my idea on vehicle assembly. xD Fortunately it could be integrated into this topic though. :)

    Still, it's a cool concept and perhaps analyzing samples could yet find some use. Maybe it could be for chemistry or something.

    I've been thinking by performing a manned landing first, you'd automatically achieve the unmanned counterpart as well. You'd however need to take an R&D Station together with the necessary machines and materials (or return to your Overworld base) to take advantage of this. Also, manned probes could function as a beacon for manned landing crafts, which was a procedure actually planned by the Soviets for their moon landing. In GC this could in fact be very important if you're going to land on a celestial body like Miranda.

    Well, it does indeed seems ludicrous. I supposed the main advantage with a space station as an orbital HQ is it's an optional get-away from Martian dust storms or the cruel environment of Venus. You could also dock your spacecraft at an orbital NASA Workbench for reconfiguration and refueling at a cheaper cost. Presuming you'd have a spacestation passively collecting hydrogen in low orbit around Jupiter's thermosphere, it would effectively be a local refueling station inside the Jovian system. In case of the eventual need of an oxidizer agent, it could be mined from Io or Europa.

    Yeah, the space you have to work within for a Minecraft GUI is pretty limited. Though I was thinking that more as a display on the actual milestones rather than having a practical layout in mind.

    I was thinking of while the left arm could have that wrist computer, the right arm could have a hookshot module. It's basically a shootable tether that attaches to anything it hits.

    Hopefully it won't be much more of a technical problem than simply using the mod's already featured on/off function. I would just cross my fingers for its technical feasibility and that it won't be creating any significant conflicts with other mods.


    Anyhow, let's talk about the Galaxy Map. I thought it could be "something cool" that blends a modern UI with something from a late 90ths sci-fi game:


    [​IMG]


    This represents a selected body. However, when no celestial bodies is selected, the Galaxy Map would be a plain overview on the Solar system with a top-located catalog on its planets + hierarchic sorting on its respective moons.

    Now, imagine that you clicked on the Moon, the catalog menu would withdraw to the top corner and the camera would zoom and lock-in on the selected celestial body. At the same time two display windows would roll in from the sides and show all kind of data regarding the body. It's specifically what this picture displays.

    It would be especially cool if this data was progressively complemented as the player made advancements in his tech tree, just to give an impression of the player was getting wiser.

    Among practical things are the display of an eventual orbital satellite and display of what time on the day it's on that body.

    Presuming there could be various landing strategies, these could be displayed as comprehensible profiles. Red signifies modules that needs to be researched.

    Perhaps a help button could also be useful. Who knows.

    By pressing on 'CATALOG' again, the side displays would fold back and the camera zoom out and return to unlocked status. You'd be free to browse your celestial bodies again using the featured catalog, or simply watch over the Solar system.


    Anyhow, I do get a feeling the tech tree could need some more elaboration together with potential milestones. But I'm feeling confident the tier 1 tree should be relatively basic. I'm not entirely sure how transition to tier 2 would be done, but I supposed it would involve raiding a Moon Dungeon?
     
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  8. obsidianpower790

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    really nice job i want this added :D.
     
  9. Benoni

    Benoni Member

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    How can 1 man.. Put so much awesomeness into 1 thread?
     
  10. obsidianpower790

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    cant. its 2 mans.
     
  11. Benoni

    Benoni Member

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    How can 2 mans put so much awesomeness into 1 thread?
     
  12. obsidianpower790

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    cant nuke.jpg
     
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  13. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    If I didn't post this topic, would you ever had added your ideas? The answer is possibly. Plus, I believe your ideas and designs have ended up better than mine.



    Possibly, it could also help with research points.



    So, some milestones would count as achieving other ones depending on the milestone(s)? That seems helpful.



    If you keep thinking like this, there could be a use for any celestial body. =3



    Very limited, if all you can do is click and drag, scroll bars, and tabs to get more space. But I guess it is possible. Someone craft the R&D Table, I need to research a solution, ASAP!
    Speaking of crafting, we need some recipe artwork, the blueprint paper should be pretty covered already, unless instead of Lapis Lazuli it was any blue dye, or a lighter shade.



    But, how would you control it as to whether you want to go to it, or use it for support? Possibly buttons, but maybe crouching is also needed to get to your objective.



    Indeed. Let us hope, nobody wants to have to fix bugs, even with the great reward of happy players.


    Let me stop you right there, it's about time! xD
    Amazing piece of art.

    Interesting.

    I'm imagining really hard! "Gaahhhh!!!" I. . . . I think I can see the traces of cheese! :O

    This was one of my original thoughts when making the suggestion and thinking about a better galaxy map / dimension travel GUI. Though, whether or not it should be complemented when research on the Moon itself is done, or for any research is done at all.

    If it could become more accurate on the exact time, such as switching to something like how the Clock works, then like an actual time, that'd be more helpful, though, it'd become more complicated as different celestial bodies have different speeds, so it would be more of a mix.

    Also helpful. Possibly clicking on something could provide further information on stuff, and then it would just show a summary or the first lines when not opened up for further information.

    Well, some newbies don't know what a wiki is, "Dah Truth!"

    I'd sit their for a long time just watching celestial bodies move around, even more if it was accurate transition, and affected by players changing time.

    Dungeon Raiding would sure be important, but I think Dungeons should also be changed a bit so they have more importance and could fit in even better with research.
     
  14. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    Since you brought this up, this would mean no more parachests falling down on the spacestation, nor teleporting to the pad. This would greatly solve people's problems with that. =3 (Yes, I just realized the helpfulness, besides the more obvious ones.)
     
  15. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    Well, I had been considering the idea of vehicle assembly and a research system as a more organized mean of building rockets and unlocking/managing new technologies. But as you did conveniently post a topic about research I thought it was a great opportunity to share and elaborate ideas I'd otherwise wouldn't had come up with.

    Indeed. I've seen some innovative solutions I've found inspiring.

    Tell me about some required recipes. All I can come to think of is the R&D Station.

    Probably it'd be automatically winch you in. Though it could have a manual mode in the form of 'jump = winch in' or 'crouch = winch out'.

    In a retrospect I agree that the Clock is the more accurate way of displaying current time. It would also probably be good if the specific data was also shown in the overview how long a day is.


    Here's an intermediate concept on how the planet menu could look like:


    [​IMG]


    Unavailable planets could be marked as red. Available terrestrial planets is marked as green, whereas gas giants that don't have a surface is yellow, meaning they are partly available via an orbital spacestation.

    Each planet that has atleast one visitable moon will have a list menu, with the concept showing Jupiter's major moons respectively listed as: Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

    Also, the concept lacks a background overview of the Solar System. Sorry.
     
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  16. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    Yes! I helped. :D


    Good job, soldier!


    R&D Station
    Blueprint (Already Covered)
    Satellite?
    Now thinking about it, you may have actually had a recipe shown for the new pieces needed to make the new pieces to build a rocket.
    Oh, and astronaut gear.


    If you shift click and move to a wall while in an area with 0 gravity, you should have your camera change, and your player model switch so you are walking on a new side. (For those unbelievers of this power, you should play other mods more often! A mod that affects gravity has this, but that's off-topic.)


    MineCraft time, of course. =3


    Only intermediate? Don't under exaggerate! I can even tell the moons apart! Though, there'd be a need for a tab for dwarf planets, and moons of dwarf planets could be a square to the right and continue down. (Question, what is it called when something orbits a moon? o_O)

    [/quote]Unavailable planets could be marked as red. Available terrestrial planets is marked as green, whereas gas giants that don't have a surface is yellow, meaning they are partly available via an orbital space station.
     
  17. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    I'm not sure how the R&D Station should be. I suppose it could be something like the NASA Workbench, but with a blank blueprint instead of a Crafting Table.

    Satellite could be like this:

    [​IMG]


    A lander probe could be similar, but with added engine and landing struts:

    [​IMG]


    Though using Full Solar Panels might be too expensive and discourage players from investing into these contraptions. Single Solar Modules (which are conveniently built in pairs) could be used instead.

    Here's a template (Anything within the darker grey border is available crafting space):

    [​IMG]


    I'll think of astronaut gears. For a started I'd imagine the wrist computer would be crafted of: Advanced Wafer, Redstone Repeater, regular Redstone, Compressed Plating (of some metal) and Glass (for the display screen).

    Sounds alright to me.

    Well, the planet menu is kind of inconsistent with the previous concept menu. If it was the real deal, then I'd add more flashy buttons, because we all know how much people love flashy buttons. Especially big red ones.

    Oh yeah, I was wondering about dwarf planets (like Ceres and Pluto) myself. They could indeed have a separate menu, or they could be in the regular planet menu, but having smaller icons (and gas giants larger). The name display of the selected celestial body could also display the planet type (e.g. Dwarf Planet, Gas Giant, Terrestrial Planet, Moon, etc.). Presuming the list of planets or moons would get too long for the GUI design perimeters, an indefinite scrolling system could be implemented. I'd also like a 'minimize' function on the planet menu itself.

    Then it would be nice for add-on makers if there was a star system menu for interstellar travels.

    A satellite? It depends on what this "something" is. If you mean a moon of a moon, I guess that would make it a sub-moon. It's probably a really rare and short-lived phenomena to occur, but I'm sure it exists somewhere out there.
     
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  18. Ops. The Xeno

    Ops. The Xeno Member

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    Two things my friend: 1. How on earth are you not part of Mic's team for the mod with your amazing GUI's and textures, how? 2. The wrist computer sounds kinda like this: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/gauntlet-and-its-modes.3913/#post-30737, perhaps we can combine our ideas together to make a super awesome gauntlet, ;)
     
  19. MoltonMontro

    MoltonMontro Member

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    No, it sounds more like this. http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/ambient-oxygen-indicator-in-the-hud.2480/
    As that was the purpose, I believe, for it. As mentioned several posts above.
     
  20. Ops. The Xeno

    Ops. The Xeno Member

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