Better input/output face arrangement for machines

Ezer'Arch

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It's a minor nuisance as to how machines and furnaces are placed and how their input and output faces are rotated. When I place a machine, I have to pay attention if their faces are rotated right, as their I/O faces can be on the left or on the right side. I use the wrench to fix the rotation.

Most machines have their input face on the left, and output face on the right. But the coal generator (energy output on the left) and the energy storage module (input on the right and output on the left) and a few others are exception.

I suggest that when I place a block:
  • when it uses only kind of supply, the input face is on the left, and the output face is on the right side;
  • when it uses more than one kind of supply, the energy input is on the left, and the air/oil/item input is on the right side;
And these would have their faces changed (it may lead to problems for old worlds):
  • refinery: the oil input is on the left, fuel output is on the right, and energy input beneath (not on top, which is for smoke, you may think the cable is about to catch fire)
  • electric furnaces: the energy input is on back face, as it was long time ago (1st image). The current setup forces me to waste space as I can't place one furnace next to another because the left side needs to be free for the wire (2nd image), unless by rotating but I need to see the front face because almost all machines share the same side texture. I could stack them too, but still the left side is for wire input.

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Once you have these rules in mind, it will be more straightforward to place the machines.

Slightly-off: There was a mod called Electric Expansion, which allowed to rotate the I/O faces to whatever direction you wanted, north, south, east, west, top and button. GC could have the same thing but, well, I don't want to over-complicate. ^^
 
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radyjko

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Thermal Expansion 3 gui for input/output is't complicated. That's because input/output have same color as slots in machne. One disatventage is mess with default slots: redtone furnance have 4 inputs and only one output!

Later i can draw how GC I/O system would work, by the way.
 

Ezer'Arch

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* refinery: the oil input is on the left, fuel output is on the right, and energy input on the back (not on top, which is for smoke, you may think the cable is about to catch fire)
Since Methane Synthesizer and Water Electrolyze have their energy input beneath, the Refinery could follow suit, the problem is it will break the setup in the old worlds.
 
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radfast

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Since Methane Synthesizer and Water Electrolyze have their energy input beneath, the Refinery could follow suit, the problem is it will break the setup in the old worlds.
Exactly. As a general rule, we aim not to change the setup of machines that will already be in player's worlds, unless something in the existing setup is clearly broken. (Example, in GC2 half of the machines had reversed colours for their energy inputs and outputs, so in was red and out was green; that is fixed in GC3.)

The reason the new gas machines have their energy input beneath is that in some situations they need the block above to be clear - if using an Atmospheric Valve. I also think it looks tidier. And the sides are not an option, as the machines use 2 or 3 sides for pipe input or output.

What I am aiming to do - slowly - is increase the number of sides for older machines to accept hoppered items, or equivalents of hoppers like BuildCraft pipes or ME systems. The general rule is that the finished item made by the machine should be extractable by a hopper beneath - like a vanilla furnace. (That rule is broken by the new gas machines because of the electricity connection being beneath - I don't have a good solution for that, there are just not enough sides on the machines.)
 

radfast

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Looking at the original post, I loved the Electric Expansion mod, any physicist would.
 

radfast

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Third post: what I can do is change the effect of the Standard Wrench rotating placed blocks, if it's wrong. My intention is that it should rotate all blocks in a clockwise direction (viewed from above) so if you notice any where that rule is broken please let me know.
 

Ezer'Arch

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Exactly. As a general rule, we aim not to change the setup of machines that will already be in player's worlds, unless something in the existing setup is clearly broken.
Yes, Electric Furnaces had their energy input on their back/rear faces in GC1, and it was changed to the left side in GC2, I had to fix them after the port (before and after). Probably it was done for consistency, but still, since Electric Furnace is some sort of end-use/indoor appliance, I liked the old way better.
 
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Gazz44

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The issue with the single power input devices such as the Electric Compressor and the Circuit Fabricator can be fixed by updating the graphics on the blocks. Just swap the "Front Side" image with the "Right Side" Image.
 

Ezer'Arch

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Just swap the "Front Side" image with the "Right Side" Image.
Just swapping graphics won't sort out the issue. You still have to edit a "Blank" side (machine_side.png) to have the front face out, and it would affect all the other sides of almost every machine.

Looking at the original post, I loved the Electric Expansion mod, any physicist would.
Then you should check "Electrical Age", it's a truly engineer playground (edit: it's beta, not compatible with Galacticraft): http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum...-physics-electric-circuits-more#entry32077163

EDIT:
if you notice any where that rule is broken please let me know.
Indirect: I've just discovered refinery_top.png is an unused graphic. ^^
 
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radfast

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Actually I think there's something in Gazz's suggestion. We could update GC to apply the Electric Furnace "front" graphic to all 3 sides of the block which are not power input. (Similar to how the Terraformer has its grass icon on 3 of the 4 sides.) Then you could rotate the machine with a wrench to have the power at the back if you want, but nobody's existing base will break.

Same approach could be used for any machine which does not have special sides.

Obviously the machine side texture would then become little-used (but it's probably still used in a couple places).

I'll talk to micdoodle8 about this, it's not clear what we should do here - there is a design philosophy that machines (except the Terraformer) only have their "front" graphic on one side; and also generally we are aiming not to make any more changes to blocks and machines which were in GC1 and GC2.
 

Gazz44

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Just in my opinion:

I know you guys don't want to update the machines anymore because it would break existing worlds, but i really think that the power input should be at the "back" of the machines and uniform all inputs to the "Left" side, and outputs to the "Right". The "Top" could be used for secondary input.

It would make everything easier from all aspects, game play would be a lot neater, coding can be streamlined by having "template" machine class files, for new machines.

A pain in the ass to implemented, and to fix worlds, but I do think it would be easier in the long run.
 

SirKillz

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Please allow power inputs from all sides of a machine. It is really irritating, having to put machines in a different format. If you want to put them next to eachother you can't even see the fronts of the machines. At least allow inputs from the bottoms.
 

radfast

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This is a request which comes up often.

I do not want to change the sides of any existing connections, as that would break existing worlds.

In theory it should be no problem to add second power connections on the bottom of all machines - the bottom is normally used only for item output (so that a Hopper can work) so a power connection there is OK for people who do not want to use a Hopper. But I'm not sure about aesthetics - machines will look weird with green power input sides on two sides, and I think there's a risk people will be confused and think the machine requires a connection on both.

A better approach would be something like Mekanism's "Configurator" tool which you can point at a machine and have things switch sides without the machine itself being rotated.

I think we can look at that for the 1.8 version of Galacticraft, as it will tie in with an overall code change which is needed for blocks + metadata anyhow.
 
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Ezer'Arch

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A better approach would be something like Mekanism's "Configurator" tool which you can point at a machine and have things switch sides without the machine itself being rotated.
Surely addding a second power connection is not only ugly but also it wouldn't please everyone once you open a precedent... "oh, what if this other face were here or there?".

Shift-clicking the wrench on a machine could open a GUI where the player would be allowed to rearrange the faces of a machine, like in Electric Expansion mod. EDIT: The current face positions would be still the same (default) on block placement to avoid breaking existing worlds. The player could change rotate the faces with shift-wrench afterwards.
 
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SirKillz

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Sounds good, I would be perfectly fine if connections could come in from the bottom this way I could have all my machines in my line and live happily ever after! Thanks for the quick replies everyone once again strong work with this mod, love the progress!
 
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Hanakocz

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Well, if changing this, why render INPUT ? The easiest change would be to let cables connect from any side, without needed "green thingie"
The most non practical thing on the situation now is, that top and bottoms cannot be used , while the inputs must be opposite. This combination yields really confusing handling, when you cannot do some easy setup, also chaining of machines and STORAGES is kind of...strange. (This thing especially when there are no "covers" to let cables/pipes disconnect of each other (or we have colouring of ox. pipes + cables? If yes, little easier, but still....)
Also the oxygen sealer should be able to have its output pointing to the side or bottom...
And walkways would be awesome, if they are both-sides -> as cover to the ceiling and also for the floor

Nowadays You are forced to have all the stuff in floor, nothing can go to walls not ceilings. Quite boring space stations.


For technical things. Yes, I know more inputs or whatever will cause the problem "what to rotate". Then there is the need of general inputs or outputs, I mean "all sides can input power" or "all sides can connect to the pipes"... However that will change a lot of things.

But...I will do some screenshots or videos of my space station and You will be able to see, how disappointing and ugly setups have to be as it is now. :) Pipes all over the rooms etc.
(At least I managed to hide all cables Thanks to IC2 Construction foam... )