Hypothermia, Moon Module; You own HQ and a Space Suit

Space Viking

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Also a lander offering unlimited oxygen and power isn't a temporary shelter. It turns it into a crutch. Why prepare for something like you have to do with almost every other mod out there when the lander will provide you with oxygen refills as needed?

If you didn't pack enough supplies for your journey, you either have to come back or in this case possibly die. Sorry. That's how games are. There's challenges you have to overcome. Turning the lander into a soda machine at a fast food restaurant (unlimited refills) takes away the challenge the mod was made to have in the first place. The rockets/lander already have cargo space for you to be able to pack extra stuff.

It was never suggested by anyone the lander should be a literally unlimited source of oxygen and power. That's something that was solely made up by you.

The idea is the lander could serve as a tool of survival. It could possibly come with an already integrated storage (rather than cluttering up the cargo space with unstackable oxygen tanks and batteries) to provide the player some support on the early part of their moon adventure. The lander GUI could in turn also provide the player with an easy-to-use interface for refilling his oxygen tanks as well as recharging any electric equipment. The lander could perhaps even possess a basic oxygen production through electrolysis, so if you can provide the lander with power and water, you can achieve an early oxygen production.
 

Dex Luther

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It was never suggested by anyone the lander should be a literally unlimited source of oxygen and power. That's something that was solely made up by you.

The idea is the lander could serve as a tool of survival. It could possibly come with an already integrated storage (rather than cluttering up the cargo space with unstackable oxygen tanks and batteries) to provide the player some support on the early part of their moon adventure. The lander GUI could in turn also provide the player with an easy-to-use interface for refilling his oxygen tanks as well as recharging any electric equipment. The lander could perhaps even possess a basic oxygen production through electrolysis, so if you can provide the lander with power and water, you can achieve an early oxygen production.

and use the Moon Module like your HQ, with oxygen storage, electric storage.

I've already mentioned multiple times (It's even in the post you quoted) there there's already tons of cargo space in the lander. If you don't pack extra supplies, tough luck. Go back to the overworld and get more, turn on creative mode, or die. I don't know what more he wants. I merely warned about about wanting to turn it into an unlimited oxygen supply if that was the case.

People keep comparing GC to NASA, but then suggest making air tanks refill at the click of a button and/or give free oxygen?

Other than that... make oxygen tanks stackable, but not to 64 (except for empties)?

Small Tanks (Full) = 32
Medium Tanks (full) = 16
Large Tanks (Full) = 8

Small Tanks (Empty) = 64
Medium Tanks (Empty) = 32
Large Tanks (Empty) = 16

Note: The above numbers might need to be divided by 2 depending on the duration of each size.

I think that would be the simplest solution.
 

Ezer'Arch

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but then suggest making air tanks refill at the click of a button and/or give free oxygen?
Does the moon lander give you free fuel? No. Still the moon lander stores a limited amount of fuel that is consumed when the moon lander is being used and the player can retrieve a part of the fuel stored by using oil canisters. The same mechanism could be used to create a micro air-tight environment inside the lander.

The moon lander would not produce oxygen from nothing (= "give free oxygen") but it would have its own in-built oxygen tank with higher capacity than a large tank but still limited, not infinite.
 
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Dex Luther

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Does the moon lander give you free fuel? No. Still the moon lander stores a limited amount of fuel that is consumed when the moon lander is being used and the player can retrieve a part of the fuel stored by using oil canisters. The same mechanism could be used to create a micro air-tight environment inside the lander.

The moon lander would not produce oxygen from nothing (= "give free oxygen") but it would have its own in-built oxygen tank with higher capacity than a large tank but still limited, not infinite.

The lander already has storage space and large tanks have pretty large amounts of air in them. Open the storage and take an extra tank out. The way I see it is the feature is already in the mod. I don't see why the lander would have to refill the players air tanks from it's reserve for the player.

I also don't see why it's needed for the lander to be used as shelter. When you go through a nether portal, does it build a base around you to make sure you don't get shot by Ghasts as soon as you walk through? Can the portal be used as a base in case you are being shot by a Ghast or attacked by other mobs? No. That's a risk you take on the journey and why you prepare ahead of time for it. A player brings the supplies they'll need on the other side to build a quick shelter for themselves and the portal. The same is true when landing on the moon or any other planet in the Mod.

I've seen many videos of people stepping through a fresh nether portal and being immediately shot my Ghasts and other mobs on the other side, even Direwolf20, and I never once heard any of them complain "ugh Nether portals should spawn with a cobblestone box around them!" Instead, they prepare ahead of time and bring the materials they need to build it themselves. Sure it happens that they die in the process, but that's part of the challenge of the game. It's not like the lander automatically ejects the player after it lands. If you land and there's mobs around, you can stay inside the lander until the coast is clear.
 
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Space Viking

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Other than that... make oxygen tanks stackable, but not to 64 (except for empties)?

Small Tanks (Full) = 32
Medium Tanks (full) = 16
Large Tanks (Full) = 8

Small Tanks (Empty) = 64
Medium Tanks (Empty) = 32
Large Tanks (Empty) = 16

Note: The above numbers might need to be divided by 2 depending on the duration of each size.

I think that would be the simplest solution.

As far as I know, this is technically a pretty tricky feat since items with endurance/capacity is using metadata. As long as there is a limits that prevents the player from putting no more than a single oxygen tanks in each respective slot, it would be alright. Is there any mods out there that have achieved such a thing?


The lander already has storage space and large tanks have pretty large amounts of air in them. Open the storage and take an extra tank out. The way I see it is the feature is already in the mod. I don't see why the lander would have to refill the players air tanks from it's reserve for the player.

Well, why would you even need a cargo space in the first place then? The player already has his inventory space in the vanilla game, so there you have your cargo space.

What I think is it would be more efficient if there was an integrated oxygen tank. That way the player would always come with a default amount of oxygen and electricity that could also be easily read on a gauge through the lander's GUI. There shouldn't really be any need of bringing numerous of oxygen tanks if there could be a possibility of refueling a few at a time instead, as they do indeed already have a pretty large air capacity. Afterall, that's going to be the case as soon as the player has an oxygen compressor installed with a reliable air supply.

As the lander being used as a shelter, I wouldn't think of it like an impervious mini-fortification. It's more of a machine with some basic but useful first step functions, whereas the definition of shelter is more of being able to simply enter it, because should mobs otherwise be able of directly attacking you or beginning to destroy the lander when inside? Respectively, becoming impervious is in a sense already available by simply enclosing yourself within a layer of blocks, wherever it's in the Overworld or the Nether.
 

Dex Luther

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As far as I know, this is technically a pretty tricky feat since items with endurance/capacity is using metadata. As long as there is a limits that prevents the player from putting no more than a single oxygen tanks in each respective slot, it would be alright. Is there any mods out there that have achieved such a thing?




Well, why would you even need a cargo space in the first place then? The player already has his inventory space in the vanilla game, so there you have your cargo space.

What I think is it would be more efficient if there was an integrated oxygen tank. That way the player would always come with a default amount of oxygen and electricity that could also be easily read on a gauge through the lander's GUI. There shouldn't really be any need of bringing numerous of oxygen tanks if there could be a possibility of refueling a few at a time instead, as they do indeed already have a pretty large air capacity. Afterall, that's going to be the case as soon as the player has an oxygen compressor installed with a reliable air supply.

As the lander being used as a shelter, I wouldn't think of it like an impervious mini-fortification. It's more of a machine with some basic but useful first step functions, whereas the definition of shelter is more of being able to simply enter it, because should mobs otherwise be able of directly attacking you or beginning to destroy the lander when inside? Respectively, becoming impervious is in a sense already available by simply enclosing yourself within a layer of blocks, wherever it's in the Overworld or the Nether.

1) the tanks would be at 100%. Why would people bring tanks that weren't full?

2) the lander has cargo space to let them bring other materials in addition to extra air and energy. Removing that limits the player to their inventory only. It's fine the way it is. At most make full tanks stack like I suggested above.
 

Space Viking

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1) the tanks would be at 100%. Why would people bring tanks that weren't full?

It's not about that, it's about if there are mods featuring stackable items that can still be restricted to only one item when place inside a specific item slot. Otherwise without such a technically limitation, imagine having an entire stack of oxygen tanks in the oxygen slot being consumed all at once, or an entire stack of oxygen tanks being refilled in a compressor only at the price of one. My concern is what if this is a hardcoded limit?
 

Dex Luther

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It's not about that, it's about if there are mods featuring stackable items that can still be restricted to only one item when place inside a specific item slot. Otherwise without such a technically limitation, imagine having an entire stack of oxygen tanks in the oxygen slot being consumed all at once, or an entire stack of oxygen tanks being refilled in a compressor only at the price of one. My concern is what if this is a hardcoded limit?

That's not the case in GC nor in the GC lander. The GC Moon lander doesn't consume oxygen and the player's oxygen slot would still only accept one tank. Try clicking on the fuel slot in the fuel loader with Forestry's fuel capules. They stack up to 16, but only one is placed in the slot at a time. The exact same can be done with oxygen tanks as I described in an earlier post.

Small Tanks (Full) = 32
Medium Tanks (full) = 16
Large Tanks (Full) = 8

Small Tanks (Empty) = 64
Medium Tanks (Empty) = 32
Large Tanks (Empty) = 16

Note: The above numbers might need to be divided by 2 [for balance].

You'd click on a slot with a stack of tanks, and only the allowed number would be put in the slot.
 

Space Viking

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Try clicking on the fuel slot in the fuel loader with Forestry's fuel capules. They stack up to 16, but only one is placed in the slot at a time.

That was what I wanted to know. I haven't actually played the mod though, so I will simply take your words for it until I've gotten the time to try it out.
 

MasterOanarchY

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Did you have a talk with MicDoodle, about why he banned you the first time, or do I need to make sure the ban sticks?
 

Ezer'Arch

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Why bother setting up a base and the infrastructure that it requires on the moon when you can just live in the lander?

1.
It was never suggested by anyone the lander should be a literally unlimited source of oxygen and power. (...) The idea is the lander could serve as a tool of survival. It could possibly come with an already integrated storage to provide the player some support on the early part of their moon adventure.

2.
The moon lander would not produce oxygen from nothing (= "give free oxygen") but it would have its own in-built oxygen tank with higher capacity than a large tank but still limited, not infinite.

Conclusion: if the moon lander has a limited oxygen and energy storage for a period of time, this means that the player will be either forced to go back to Overworld or build a permanent base that provides definitive oxygen production while the lander still gives some life support.

The player can also choose to do nothing, wait for their supply to run out and die.
 

Dex Luther

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1.


2.


Conclusion: if the moon lander has a limited oxygen and energy storage for a period of time, this means that the player will be either forced to go back to Overworld or build a permanent base that provides definitive oxygen production while the lander still gives some life support.

The player can also choose to do nothing, wait for their supply to run out and die.

The point flew straight over your head or maybe you just don't want to see it. I've explained before that even if it's not unlimited it doesn't change a thing. Why build a base and all that infrastructure when you can use your lander as a base and just fill it with air and power every once in a while? Unless you're suggesting the lander NOT be refillable, I doubt you are though.

But of course once people have that the suggestions will be rolling in to make it unlimited somehow. If it's too hard and annoying for someone to pack a rocket with material they need to at least start building a base, how do you expect them to not complain when they have to keep filling their lander with air and power?

I see a slippery slope. Remove one challenge and people will ask 'why not' about removing others.
 

Ezer'Arch

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Why build a base and all that infrastructure when you can use your lander as a base and just fill it with air and power every once in a while?
Where would the extra O2 and energy to refill the lander come from if I don't build a permanent installation with oxygen farm?

But of course once people have that the suggestions will be rolling in to make it unlimited somehow (...).
I see a slippery slope. Remove one challenge and people will ask 'why not' about removing others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Yes, Mic will deliver all people want as if he doesn't know how to reach a middle ground.
 
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Dex Luther

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Where would the extra O2 and energy to refill the lander come from if I don't build a permanent installation with oxygen farm?

Same place the materials people brought with them to build a base came from. Oh wait... they didn't. the suggestion officially doesn't make sense anymore.

They want the lander to supply air, power and act as a base because it's too annoying to have to keep going back to the overworld to get more, and they want it to be used as a shelter. It can't be unlimited because that would be overpowered, but then where does the lander get it's supply of air from? The overworld. It's already in the mod. It's called filling the rocket's cargo with air canisters and batteries. The air and battery system can be pretty much infinite already if you set up and prepare properly.

Set up to have a cargo rocket on a secondary pad be filled with air tanks and batteries and launch to a pad you set up for it as soon as you get to the moon. Presto! Infinite air and batteries (as long as your stuff is properly chunk loaded).

As for shelter aspect, that's what the other materials you pack into the lander are for. Same as on the overworld. You prepare, make a crappy shelter at first, and expand over time. I don't see how you don't think that a free shelter that protects you from mobs infinitely isn't overpowered and doesn't remove challenge from the game.

Like I suggested earlier in this thread, making air tanks stack (not to 64) is a quick and easy solution, and it doesn't remove any challenge by giving people free infinite shelter.
 

Ezer'Arch

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but then where does the lander get it's supply of air from?
From the overworld? Oh wait, I can build an oxygen farm and probably a base if I want to stay on the Moon for a long period. I still need to build oxygen farm if I want to survive and stay.

In fact, building a base is already not mandatory in the current state. All I need in my inventory is a few dirt blocks, seeds, a hoe, a bucket of water, 2 oxygen collectors, an oxygen compressor, 4 solar panels, two extra air tanks and a few meters of wiring and pipes, and set up my oxygen farm anywhere open-air on the ground, in a cave or hole. I can then refill my individual life support forever and still don't need to build up a single wall or go back to the Overworld.

The base is necessary just for two reasons (excluding "building is fun"):
1) To protect me from hostile mobs.
2) To give me an environment where I can freely work and walk inside, build labs, storages rooms, dormitories and whatever I want.

The moon lander is only redundant as to the reason #1 but doesn't give me the #2 because all you can do in a moon lander is stay sitting down with no mobility. Besides, you can do it already if you want.
 
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Dex Luther

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The overworld? Oh wait, I can build an oxygen farm and probably a base if I want to stay on the Moon for a long period.

In fact, building a base is already not mandatory in the current state. All I need is a few dirt blocks, seeds, a hoe, a bucket of water, 2 oxygen collectors, an oxygen compressor, 4 solar panels, two extra air tanks and a few meters of wiring and pipes, and set up my oxygen farm anywhere open-air, in a cave or hole, I can then refill my individual life support forever and still don't need to build up a single wall or go back to the Overworld.

The base is necessary just for two reasons (excluding "building is fun"):
1) To protect me from hostile mobs.
2) To give me an environment where I can freely work and walk inside, build labs, storages rooms, dormitories and whatever.

The moon lander only effects the reason #1, but doesn't give me the #2 because all you can do in a moon lander is stay sitting down with no mobility.

yeah and you don't need it for reason #1 either. Use a few of those dirt blocks to build yourself a hut, or dig a hole into the ground like people do when they start on the over world. No hand holding is needed. Prepare properly and you don't need the lander for anything more than a large chest that is already is.
 

Ezer'Arch

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build yourself a hut
But... but... a moon lander is cooler than a dirt hut. :<

----

I re-read this:
Can the portal be used as a base in case you are being shot by a Ghast or attacked by other mobs? No. That's a risk you take on the journey and why you prepare ahead of time for it. A player brings the supplies they'll need on the other side to build a quick shelter for themselves and the portal. The same is true when landing on the moon or any other planet in the Mod.
Um.... I've never ridden or flown a portal...

... okay, it was a bad joke. ^^
 
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