Hypothermia, Moon Module; You own HQ and a Space Suit

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nacho99, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Ezer'Arch

    Ezer'Arch Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    429
    You know, nether portals don't lift off and land on other dimensions. ;)

    (The moon dirt hut will be remembered, some day, some how, and if I get around to building it it will be dedicated to you.)
     
  2. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    182
    The nether portal DOES take you to another dimension, and it doesn't protect you from getting blasted in the face by a ghast on the other side either, which can break the portal and strand you in the nether (assuming you didn't die). If you can't get inside nether portals and use them as free shelter from Ghasts, then why would anyone expect the lander to?

    When you start off in Mincraft, You have to dig a hole, gather material for a small house, or find a village to bunker down in.

    The idea here is preparation. If you take off on an adventure without proper preparation for what lies ahead, then any trouble you run into is your own fault. I don't see what's so hard about packing some extra building materials in the rocket or your own inventory to build a shelter when you get to where you're going. Hell you don't even have to pack any extra materials if you're THAT short on space. There's tons of blocks you can build with on the moon or mars.

    Next, people will be wanting that blue spawn block on space stations to supply air and power refills and serve as a shelter because it's too hard to prepare properly.
     
  3. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    180
    It's like comparing apples and oranges in my opinion. There's a difference between building a reusable portal out of obsidian and an expendable spacecraft that actually can (and needs to) be piloted. In the nether you can't be stranded as long as the portal frame remains intact. An inactive portal can always be reignited by a ghast's fireball. However, by assuming the player rushed into the nether, he'd already have the flint and steel he used to ignite the portal in the first place. Alternatively, if the portal appears in a cave, you're effectively provided a free shelter by default.

    Less than ideal suggestion is hardly something new though. Members may have their opinions, but it's ultimately the administration that decides how the forums is being managed.
     
    obsidianpower790 and Ezer'Arch like this.
  4. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    182
    None of that stops a player from being shot in the face and killed as soon as they appear on the other side of the portal does it? That's a risk you take when you build the nether portal and step through it for the first time. You don't know where it's going to spawn you. It could be in a cave or it could be out in the open. What do players do to mitigate this danger? Do they expect the portal to offer them shelter or do they make armor, weapons and gather blocks to build a portal shelter on the other side?

    You know as well as I do that it's the latter. Even Direwolf20 does it, and I can show you video proof to that effect. He does so even if here's only going there to set up a pump for lava. Why would it be any different anywhere else?

    You're never stranded on the moon either. The rocket you flew up in is in the lander's cargo, and you've got pretty much the same shelter options as when you start a new game with the added advantage that you start off with more advanced materials if you brought them. That's the comparison I was trying to make.

    Starting a new game, traveling to the moon or a planet, or going to the nether are all new worlds. They don't offer you free shelter (except for the nether sometimes). You have to build your own. The moon and planets are more advanced, so they offer more challenges to overcome in the form of having to manage air and power supplies. They also give you an advantage to help cope with those challenges though in the form of being able to start off with materials you brought.

    Using the lander as shelter isn't needed because you're supposed to have prepared properly in the first place. The lander doesn't eject you automatically anyways AND it lets you choose your own landing area. You can choose to land on an area with less mobs or near a village (if you see one). If you do end up landing surrounded by mobs, you don't have to get out right away.
     
  5. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    I don't get why this is still being discussed. Landing on the Moon is even safer and more predictable than going to the Nether (and arguably safer than the first day in the Overworld) as long as you are PREPARED and launch when it's a full moon. No mobs, problem solved. Bring some crap with you, make a tiny shelter of your own, then gradually expand on it. It's like the first time you load a new world. It's daylight and there are no mobs. You hurry and build a crappy shelter just to survive before the sun goes down. Only now you have all the time in the world to gather resources and build the machines needed while on the Overworld AND you have quadruple the amount of daylight while on the Moon to place everything...you don't even need to gather.

    You have plenty of space in your own inventory to do this. 27 slots plus the 9 in your hotbar = 36. What do you need to bring to space to get a solid start on a small shelter? Two stacks of blocks (not even needed like Dex Luther said about collecting blocks on the planet), at least two stacks of leaves, one pickaxe (you don't need weapons since you landed during the day, right?), one stack of glowstone torches (also not mandatory unless you plan on sticking around through the night), one stack of food, one door (just to keep future mobs out until an air lock is built if not on the same trip), a fuel loader, and an empty fluid canister. I would say that's the bare minimum to START. You don't need to build a fully functioning massive base on your first trip. That puts you at 10 slots leaving 26 open inventory slots for solar panels, stacks of wires and oxygen pipes, air locks, glass, plenty of oxygen tanks (although you don't really need much since you could quickly build a sufficient source, not to mention the two slots for the tanks you are wearing), batteries, oxygen collectors, oxygen sealers, oxygen compressors, and whatever else you can fit. Grand total = 36 slots filled (using 4 additional tanks and 4 batteries which should be plenty to survive the time it takes to build that small shelter). A LOT can be done on your first trip and it can be done in a perfectly safe environment.
     
    #45 Douglas_Fresh, Dec 9, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  6. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    182
    Too hard!
     
  7. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    My head explodes when trying to prepare for things!

    edited previous post too
     
  8. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    182
    That's not even counting the tons of space in the rocket/lander itself.

    Technically, you don't even need a fuel loader. Unless he changed it recently, doesn't the rocket already have what ever left over fuel or was that moved to the the lander's storage?
     
  9. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    My point exactly! That's just the storage space on your person, let alone any cargo space on the rocket. So the arguement that there is not enough space to carry what you need is entirely invalid.

    And yes, the fuel situation must have changed because I was ill-equipped and didn't bring a fuel loader and was stranded (someone just ran into this as well so I confirmed it yesterday). It is stored in the Lander or Parachest. I made a mistake, I died, I dealt with it, I moved on. I was too eager just to scout the Moon for the first time (wasn't planning on building) and I suffered the consequences of my mistake.

    Now I never forget anything because I have a clipboard with a Pre-Flight Checklist including oxygen gear, tools, fuel, food, items to supply the base and objectives so that I go PREPARED every time.
     
  10. Nacho99

    Nacho99 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    who is agree and who not?
     
  11. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    180
    That's exactly my point with what I think you are comparing apple with oranges. I find the analogy lacking since the lunar lander isn't an interplanetary portal like what's featured in the Mars Mod. It's true there is actually nothing stopping the player from being attacked as soon as he enters the nether, but so what? The lander obviously doesn't work like that. Personally, I think the argument the nether portal dosen't provide you free shelter or supplies is flawed. If the player built the portal securely inside of his Overworld base, he's as a matter of fact provided a "free" shelter and supplies. The only thing needed is to barricade the portal on the nether side and you are free to effortlessly access these two dimension as you please. The same logic doesn't apply to the lander.

    I was actually positively surprised to see the lunar phase is synchronized. Although, the Moon is also the start of GC, so it's a good gameplay if you can judge directly from the Overworld's skybox if it's day or night on the Moon. The same thing doesn't apply to other planets though.

    The thing I'm more curious about is how hostile mobs should act when the player is inside of a lander. What do you think?
     
  12. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    Actually I was pretty excited to see it synchronized too. I wasn't expecting that. But althought the Moon is the only one you can SEE to determine what time of day it is, Mars is actually directly synchronized with the Overworld so you can still plan accordingly.
     
  13. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    180
    It's reasonable the Martian days are in sync with the Overworld since the time differences between the days are quite minimal. The same logic could also apply to the Saturnian moon Mimas, but that's it. Assuming the next world that was revealed by micdoodle to have lots of water is one of Jupiter's major moons or the dwarf planet Ceres, things won't be as straight forward when it comes to sync. Yet, we'll see how this turns out to be when it's actually released.
     
  14. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    Hmm, good points. I wonder if this is where the suggestion for telescopes or something could be useful.
     
  15. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    182
    You're right. It's even EASIER with the lander. The lander doesn't eject you automatically into harms way the way the Nether portal does. You have complete control over when you launch, where you land, and when it's safe to exit the lander. When you light a nether portal NOTHING and I mean NOTHING prevents you from being shot and killed by a Ghast (or something else if you have other mods installed) as soon as the game loads on the other side unless you've prepared properly, and even then you're not guaranteed survival. I've seen it happen plenty of times on servers and during other people's lets plays.

    The moon and other planets are an even more advanced place than the nether, so why should it offer any protection at all for the ill prepared? With all the space on your character and rocket/lander if you aren't able to prepare properly with more than enough armor, tools, materials, and even air you're going to need, then honestly you deserved to die. Learn from that mistake and prepare better next time. If you can't handle that challenge, then there's a thing called Creative Mode.

    The moon and other destinations are meant to be challenging. Being able to pop in and out of a lander whenever you please breaks that challenge.
     
  16. Ezer'Arch

    Ezer'Arch Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    429
    From other topic:
    , and:
    1+ for setting a new spawnpoint. I had problems with dying on the moon because the moon's spawnpoint was too far away of any safe shelter.
     
    obsidianpower790 likes this.
  17. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    180
    Well, since Ezer has decided to be the stupid bastard to blew life into this topic for another round, he's inevitably attracted a certain analytic dumbass. (me) :p

    Given the discussed R&D system has gained official interest, I'd imagine it's featured upgrade system and vehicle assembly would relevant to this topic. Here's a quick mockup based on previous work:


    [​IMG]


    Tabbing could be color coded. It also display's current stats. The pronounced elements here are a significant upgrade, namely an extra booster in a Soviet LK style configuration. That could make the T1 lander used for worlds with no atmosphere, but with a gravity too high for the base lander, like Mercury for example. Since it's pretty sized, it will also add extra weight.

    Life-support could be extra oxygen, radiation shielding, and maybe even power upgrades.

    Another tab could be crew compartment for adding extra seats (possibly changing the current Buggy Seat simply into a universal Crew Seat).
     
    MoltonMontro likes this.
  18. obsidianpower790

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    32
    STAAAAAAPH!!!!
     
  19. Vigilantecow

    Vigilantecow Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    116
    Let's just all admit that Viking makes some badass GUI's
     
    MoltonMontro likes this.
  20. Douglas_Fresh

    Douglas_Fresh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    245
    Fact
     
    MoltonMontro likes this.

Share This Page