Realism vs Fun... (The Jupiter argument)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Kethrian, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. OpelSpeedster

    OpelSpeedster Member

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    I beg your pardon, but I never supported black holes in our solar system.

    Plus, if you really want a landable Jupiter, how would you even want it's terrain to look like?
     
  2. Flashy-3

    Flashy-3 Member

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    Dark brown-sh with metallic hydrogen seas
     
  3. IsoMS

    IsoMS Member

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    I agree i think it is'nt smart to make Jupiter landable, but i would support the idea of the option making there a space station and collecting the gasses from there.
     
  4. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    Except from nobody actually expressed the double standards of landing on Jupiter as unrealistic, but having a black hole in the solar system as workable?

    Yeah, using solely 'realism' as an argument is pretty weak, but on the other hand saying it should be implemented "just because" isn't really any better. It's practically only one guy working on this mod, so I think it's for the better his efforts goes into creating an exciting but yet sensible space adventure which we all can enjoy.
     
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  5. OpelSpeedster

    OpelSpeedster Member

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    Agreed. Just because Minecraft has [Unrealistic thing], it doesn't means we can't add [Realistic thing](As long as it isn't something like Thrist)
     
  6. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

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    Come back with this thread when MINECRAFT is about realism. It's not even that Minecraft has unrealistic things. Minecraft, as many games are, is mostly unrealistic. It's a game about building things out of Legos (blocks because actual Legos are copyright). Very little about it or much of the mods are realistic. They are the way they are because it's neat, interesting, and fun.
     
    #46 Dex Luther, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  7. OpelSpeedster

    OpelSpeedster Member

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    I was actually mentioning that games can have both Logic and Unrealism. Too much Irrealism makes the game nonsensical, and too much Logic makes the game too boring.
     
  8. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

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    I agree, but Minecraft isn't a simulator either. Not adding Jupiter just because it's a gas giant is dumb IMO. Just because NASA's never sent a probe there doesn't mean we can't make believe that there's a land-able surface somewhere down there. It doesn't mean we can't make a cloud-city type base and harvest the planet's gas to make different products.

    The argument against adding Jupiter is a non-argument IMO. Hell if I was Mitch I probably would have simplified my life, and would have done like they did with KSP and just make up names. Then there would be no argument. "That gas giant has a surface because I (speaking as Mitch) decided that planet Phoselpops has a surface."
     
    #48 Dex Luther, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  9. OpelSpeedster

    OpelSpeedster Member

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    That is what I've been suggesting that could be an alternative to landing in Gas Giants.

    Again, if Mic decides to add landable Gas Giants, I won't complain. I just really don't like the idea of Gas Giants.
     
  10. MasterOanarchY

    MasterOanarchY Moderator
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    Gas giants are a great source of hydrogen, and helium. So far that resource isn't needed in this game. It's moon, as has been stated before, could be explorable.
     
  11. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    Incorrect. NASA actually did send an entry probe into Jupiter known as the Galileo Probe. It never detected a solid surface (nor was it expected to). Of course, maybe Jupiter has a solid core. However, at the expected depth it would exist, you'd either be disintegrated or float away from it due to the immense pressure. The pressure is infact predicted to be so immense that there is a chance this entire core could have been dissolved, making the entire planet an actual massive ball of gas.
     
  12. Ezer'Arch

    Ezer'Arch Administrator
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    Yes. Most of times "realism" and "it's just a game" arguments are misused (= conveniently used) to beat up another argument you don't agree with. In fact, the "I want it because it's my idea" is the argument that is actually being used after all.

    That's why I prefer to use "expectation" over "realism". I'd expect to see things that the game proposes according to its logic.

    Galacticraft proposes letting you travel to other planets in the solar system with the Minecraft logic (building blocks, mobs spawning in the dark, crafting etc), so I expect to see Jupiter and be able to access it. But what do I expect to see in Jupiter?

    Sometimes it seems Jupiter can be anything and have anything as long as it is labeled "Jupiter" in the Planet Select, and people will be happy.... yaaaaaay! How about a planet made of pork-chop blocks with a brownish cloudy sky made of barbecue smoke ... after all, Jupiter looks like a giant ball of smoked ham in real life, why not? ......... guys?

    So.... I'm for having an accessible Jupiter. If I want to see Jupiter, at least I would expect to see the features that give it the Jupiter character, then you pick conveniently elements of reality that could work in favor of the game and forget the rest, and complete the holes with fantasy filling of Minecraft.

    My idea for Jupiter would be:

    - Jupiter is accessible if you have a spacecraft equipped with retrorockets that slow down your descend, pretty much like Moon lander, and allow you to hover mid-air.

    - You'll be prompted to use the retrorockets to slow down or you'll plunge into inner Jupiter atmosphere for your death. This offers a different challenge or experience rather than just landing-and-liftoff every planet.

    - Once you managed to stop, the spacecraft will deploy a 5x5 platform beneath, the retrorockets turn off, you can then exit the spacecraft and expand your floating base. Your base won't fall because solid blocks don't fall in Minecraft.

    - Balloons would be used to explore Jupiter atmosphere.

    - Hostile mobs: Mobs hanging on balloons? Jovian Ghasts? Explosive bats?
     
    #52 Ezer'Arch, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
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  13. Dex Luther

    Dex Luther Member

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    And you missed the point of my post ;)
     
  14. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    I love the idea of how you are using Minecraft logic to remain stationary on Jupiter. It's just like SkyBlock Survival, but orange and possibly with cool weather effects when you are looking down.

    Mind to clarify your point and how it justifies an incorrect statement?
     
  15. MasterOanarchY

    MasterOanarchY Moderator
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    Actually viking since Jupiter has a magnetic field, they believe there is a ball of metalic hydrogen at the center of Jupiter. So there would be something to land on. Although wikipedia says that metallic hydrogen hasn't been produced, it has. With the worlds largest laser. I was watching Sci the other day. They did a thing on planets. Over an hours worth of time I heard catastrophic, and watched our sun turn into a red dwarf like 12 times. The rest of it was interesting. I hate how even the Sci channel thinks it needs to put us on the edge of our seats to keep us watching. They need to learn their audience. Actual science puts me on the edge of my seat. No red dwarfs, or catastrophy needed. Although why one would want to land on metallic hydrogen, and not be able to see to the end of their nose, I have no idea. Creapers would be your worst nightmare. I hear hissing from everywhere! Boom!
     
  16. MasterOanarchY

    MasterOanarchY Moderator
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    I found the wiki article on probes. There was a lot of probing going on. Way more than I knew of.
     
  17. Ezer'Arch

    Ezer'Arch Administrator
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    I was making a little search about Venus, I've just found this:

    [​IMG]

    It's a floating colony.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus
     
  18. OpelSpeedster

    OpelSpeedster Member

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    Finally an idea for Jupiter that doesn't involves "landing" on it's "surface" and mining it's "ores". Though it would be a little dull(only being able to fly around an endless gas-filled void), it actually makes sense. I just would never use it since I suck at making my own bases(hence why I rarely make space stations now.)
     
  19. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    You are mostly correct. It's not certain when this transition occurs, but it's estimated to be at a depth of around 40,000-55,000 km. Compared to the Galileo Probe, it only managed a meager 140 km before it got disabled. I'm not sure how far its titanium frame could have made it before vaporizing, but its element regardless ended up at Jupiter's metallic layer of hydrogen. This metallic layer as it may sound however, isn't actually solid. It's consistency is a metallic liquid comparable to mercury. It has, however, attained a buoyancy identical to water, so one could always float around on it if there was a way of withstanding the extreme pressure of 2 million bar and temperature of 5000 degrees Celsius.

    Actually, yeah. It's basically like they would be showing the movie Apollo 13 labeled as a 'documentary'. Even though it's good, it is also so Hollywoodish.
     
  20. Space Viking

    Space Viking Member

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    Oh, I missed your post.

    I've actually seen that before. I'm not sure how such an outpost could operate gameplay wise. Perhaps those could be the first available alternatives for players visiting Venus? They could also later work as a resort for players lacking a proper base on the Venusian surface. It's a pretty grim environment after all.

    It also dose kind of make me think of an airborne launch base. In fact, I have imagine a Venusian return vehicle could take advantage of the very dense atmosphere by utilizing flotation (rather than having some super-heavy lifting rocket). Hydrogen is an extremely efficient lifting gas on Venus. Aside from being already the lightest gas there is, it also poses no risk of ignition as the Venusian atmosphere doesn't possess any oxidizers. So the vehicle's first ascent stage would be deploying a torus shaped balloon. When maximum altitude has been reached, the vehicle will engage its boosters and decouple itself from the balloon.
     

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