Suggestion to make official Forum Rules

[Donzaffi]

We all know, rules suck but yet they are a necessity.
They are needed to point to people that not a of good address to like behave with each other and in general on forums.
It can save mods a lot of work and the users a lot of there nervs if they can point on specific rules.
They can be obvious things like, no insults against each other, to search before suggesting over and over the same ideas, clear thread titles, no necros, and perhabs blocking the suggestion forums for new users to prevent people that not a used with the mod to spam the forum and stel mitch a lot of time reading suggestions like (amazing idea or you must implement this) which finally are a waste of time to read because its about adding things that don't go well with the mod or that are in other mods.
A good idea could be a Offtopic forum too where people can discuss things that are not refered to the mod.
(sry for my bad english, but I hope it can be understand)

 

[MoltonMontro]

We all know, rules suck but yet they are a necessity.
They are needed to point to people that not a of good address to like behave with each other and in general on forums.
It can save mods a lot of work and the users a lot of there nervs if they can point on specific rules.
They can be obvious things like, no insults against each other, to search before suggesting over and over the same ideas, clear thread titles, no necros, and perhabs blocking the suggestion forums for new users to prevent people that not a used with the mod to spam the forum and stel mitch a lot of time reading suggestions like (amazing idea or you must implement this) which finally are a waste of time to read because its about adding things that don't go well with the mod or that are in other mods.
A good idea could be a Offtopic forum too where people can discuss things that are not refered to the mod.
(sry for my bad english, but I hope it can be understand)

Thumbs up! It's a pain to go to other forums and/or the website rules all the time.

 

[Dex Luther]

The forum rules rely on common sense. They are the same rules that exist on any forums or any website. Unfortunately, some of the people here treat it more like the comment section on Youtube.

 

[Ezer'Arch]

Unfortunately, some of the people here treat it more like the comment section on Youtube.

You gotta see the new comment system on Youtube. It's a big trainwreck.

 

[Dex Luther]

You gotta see the new comment system on Youtube. It's a big trainwreck.

Other than people throwing tantrums, I don't see what's so bad about it.

 

[Ezer'Arch]

Other than people throwing tantrums, I don't see what's so bad about it.

0) YouTube and G+ are going to be only one system.
1) I can't reply the comments that people post in my videos. It seems I can reply only to G+ posts.
2) I cant' reply the messages that people post in the discussion page of my channel.
3) The new system forces you to have G+ account
4) The new system doesn't let me remove unfair flagged comments.
5) Character limit removed: ASCII art posts everywhere!
6) I have to constantly to tell YT I don't want to share my posts/comments/whatever on G+.
7) I'm no longer notified about new posts/comments in my channel dashboard, everything goes to G+.
The list goes on...

 

[Donzaffi]

The forum rules rely on common sense. They are the same rules that exist on any forums or any website. Unfortunately, some of the people here treat it more like the comment section on Youtube.

I know, and that is the problem, if there are not declared people do want they want. Normally is good behaveiour and netiquette to don't insult, and so on

 

[Dex Luther]

0) YouTube and G+ are going to be only one system.
1) I can't reply the comments that people post in my videos. It seems I can reply only to G+ posts.
2) I cant' reply the messages that people post in the discussion page of my channel.
3) The new system forces you to have G+ account
4) The new system doesn't let me remove unfair flagged comments.
5) Character limit removed: ASCII art posts everywhere!
6) I have to constantly to tell YT I don't want to share my posts/comments/whatever on G+.
7) I'm no longer notified about new posts/comments in my channel dashboard, everything goes to G+.
The list goes on...

1) So what? It's not THAT big a deal. I can reply to comments just fine. The only ones that don't seem to work are ones posted before the change
2) See #1
3) So what? If you use Gmail, you had a G+ account long ago anyways. How many damn websites want me to link my facebook? No one seems to give a shit about those, AND those sites often end up using your account to spam your friends. At least G+ is still in the same network of sites.
4) Erm ok? So a comment gets unfairly flagged so you remove it? That seems even more unfair. This lets people like the Finebros ban words from being used so people can leave creep comments on their kids react videos. There are probably tons of other options for content creators that people haven't even bothered to look for.
5) So? The few being asshats ruins it for everyone? There have always been asshats in the youtube comment section. It's nothing new. Ever tried to have a discussion with someone within a 500 character limit? It was annoying as hell. Report as spam or mute the offender, and move on.
6) You don't seem to use G+ anyways, so it's not like you have anyone on your G+ account. What does it matter? Pretty sure you can also set your G+ account to private so no one could see anyways.
7) Funny you complain that you aren't notified yet others are complaining that they're being notified all the time for every comment on every one of their videos.

I didn't even bother watching the video you posted. The new comment system hasn't even been out more than a day. Why bother trying the new comment system when you can make a video bitching and whining about a system you haven't even tried to use for more than an hour.

 

[Dinammar]

We all know, rules suck but yet they are a necessity.
They are needed to point to people that not a of good address to like behave with each other and in general on forums.
It can save mods a lot of work and the users a lot of there nervs if they can point on specific rules.
They can be obvious things like, no insults against each other, to search before suggesting over and over the same ideas, clear thread titles, no necros, and perhabs blocking the suggestion forums for new users to prevent people that not a used with the mod to spam the forum and stel mitch a lot of time reading suggestions like (amazing idea or you must implement this) which finally are a waste of time to read because its about adding things that don't go well with the mod or that are in other mods.
A good idea could be a Offtopic forum too where people can discuss things that are not refered to the mod.
(sry for my bad english, but I hope it can be understand)

I agree with this! Rules might suck, but they are needed for people to see them!

 

[OpelSpeedster]

3) So what? If you use Gmail, you had a G+ account long ago anyways. How many damn websites want me to link my facebook? No one seems to give a shit about those, AND those sites often end up using your account to spam your friends. At least G+ is still in the same network of sites..

Key word: FORCED. Unlike the sites that want you to link your facebook, they don't do it optionally. They SHOVE G+ down your throat. If you click no, they think that the next day you'll magically change opinions and want G+ so they keep repeteadly asking you. And in this update they just went ahead without asking you anything and jammed G+ up your asshole, forcing your name to be changed and ruining the comment system.

Now Youtube looks like a social networking site instead of a video sharing site. That, and the fact that you outright refused to watch the video makes you look stubborn. Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.

 

[Dex Luther]

Key word: FORCED. Unlike the sites that want you to link your facebook, they don't do it optionally. They SHOVE G+ down your throat. If you click no, they think that the next day you'll magically change opinions and want G+ so they keep repeteadly asking you. And in this update they just went ahead without asking you anything and jammed G+ up your asshole, forcing your name to be changed and ruining the comment system.

Now Youtube looks like a social networking site instead of a video sharing site. That, and the fact that you outright refused to watch the video makes you look stubborn. Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done.

There are TONS of sites that FORCE you to link your facebook.

And no, it still looks like a video sharing site. The comments are just organized better. If you ever watched debate videos and tried to comment with your point of view, then you probably think the comments are way better.

If you were the type that just commented things like "This video sucks" or "lol this video's the best", then the change makes absolutely no difference to you.

And yeah Google can force you to use what every connected service they want. And the only reason they force you to use G+ is so there's an identity attached to the comments you leave. Are trolls going to go to the trouble of making a new youtube account, link it to a new G+ profile just so they can post some abusive comment on a video because the uploader has blocked them previously?

I'd much prefer watching science videos and having a higher chance of seeing comments left by people in my science circles and the uploader at the top of the comments, than have the comment section filled with random idiotic comments from people that don't know what they are talking about, are wearing their tin foil hat too tight, are a troll, or all of the above.

 

[OpelSpeedster]

There are TONS of sites that FORCE you to link your facebook.

Examples?

And no, it still looks like a video sharing site. The comments are just organized better. If you ever watched debate videos and tried to comment with your point of view, then you probably think the comments are way better.

Still looks disorganized to me. Though I have to agree that the 'show list of replies' feature is a bit nice, I've also seen tons of comments who are completely disattached from the comment they are replying to.

If you were the type that just commented things like "This video sucks" or "lol this video's the best", then the change makes absolutely no difference to you.

And I don't do that. In fact, any person here with common sense doesn't.

And yeah Google can force you to use what every connected service they want. And the only reason they force you to use G+ is so there's an identity attached to the comments you leave. Are trolls going to go to the trouble of making a new youtube account, link it to a new G+ profile just so they can post some abusive comment on a video because the uploader has blocked them previously?

It fixes this troll issue, but that comes at the frustrating side effect of forcing users who don't troll/spam into creating an account in a site they barely know/don't know about or how to use it at all AND force users who alterady have a G+ account to have their Youtube account carry their real life name in tow, forcing them to create ANOTHER G+ account just so they can remove that feature.

Let's not forget that G+ craps all over the Youtube inbox and makes it completely useless by sending the replies to your G+ inbox, and it gives you NO HINT WHATSOEVER to where the comment is. It's like G+ shoved a needle into a haystack and forced you to search for it.

I'd much prefer watching science videos and having a higher chance of seeing comments left by people in my science circles and the uploader at the top of the comments, than have the comment section filled with random idiotic comments from people that don't know what they are talking about, are wearing their tin foil hat too tight, are a troll, or all of the above.

And that comes at the cost of constantly bugging users about replies made by User A sent to User B that has NOTHING TO DO with you. In other words, useless notifications.

Replies obviously in bold. But it's better that we don't force this subject too far, as this is very Off-Topic(and contradicting the point of the thread)

 

[Dinammar]

Back to topic: So... this forum right now has no rules?

 

[Ezer'Arch]

(to the mods: it would be nice if the topic were split)

NerdCubed (aka Nerd³: http://www.youtube.com/user/Officiallynerdcubed) posted a comment about the new system:

Yeah, I took them off. The [comment] system doesn't work.

They've got rid of "flag for spam" which means that the comments can no longer self moderate. Also, comments are ranked higher if they have more replies, no longer just thumbs. These combined mean that when person A decides to post a dodgy link persons B - Z will reply saying "dodgy link" "spam" " you" or whatever. This means that the spam GETS RANKED HIGHER.

Plus now people can edit links. Spammers can write "Best song ever" give it the artificial thumbs up and replies, real people will see it and upvote it to try and block out the hate and then, with a small edit, "best song ever" becomes "celebrity sex tape" and a link your virus blocker won't like.

On top of that not everyone uses their real name so people who do are vulnerable. "I no wre u go 2 skool" become a hell of a lot worse when, with a single click, they DO know where you go to school.

With these new comments Google have created the greatest system for promoting spam and aiding cyber-bullying. It's remarkable.

And what should I do? I tried blacklisting every URL type possible but loads still get through. I can't moderate, I get 10,000+ comments a day. So, the only solution is to turn them off. I'm still popular enough for this to not hurt my search rankings too much but a lot of medium and small channels who want them off will be hurt by this. Really hurt. These are the big YouTubers of tomorrow and they really need to be helping them, not hindering them.

YouTube is a community that Google is trying to turn into a social network with Google+. Unfortunately they are doing so in such a ham-handed way that it's going to hurt both in the long run.

From http://redd.it/1qcdj2

My comment from MCF:

Let me have a say as a very small YT channel holder:

(NB1: I say "holder" because nobody is, de facto nor de jure, owner of a YT channel, Google Inc. just gives you a permission to use their infrastructure for no-cost fee)

1) I don't think that having a G+is bad. In fact I get it when it was offered for the first time (or during the 1st days, dunno). G+ page looks like a mural, so I said "Okay it's like mural where I can stick screenshots and videos, kinda broken, I don't care having a social medium... but, maybe I get a few more subscribers though". What was bad was, the change wasn't so seamless (interpret it as you wish) in a way that people were required to have a G+ page.

(NB2: Google now is offering me a custom URL for my G+, but there are plans to charge it in the future.)

2) A lot of people have said: "Google is forcing people to use real names by having a G+ to fight bad commenters". I don't know if I missed something, where this came from at first? I saw some news about it but not right from horse mouth. You can still use a nickname. The problem is that a lot of people during the change ended up using their real names in their Google accounts.

(NB3: it was a time ago a policy from YT you should not use your real name for security reasons (original link). Another reason why people are mad at Google now.)

3) No character limit and links enabled. If the point was to "fight bad commenters", since when lifting character limit and enabling links will help? A lot of ASCII art and bad links are being posted in a big rampage not only because people hated the change ("change sucks screw u!!! lulz" -- most of people hate change, we know it) but also to show how this change missed the "fight bad commenters" goal completely.

4) The change shown above put a burden on content creators' shoulders.

Before: all I needed to do, besides uploading the video of course, was to check if the comments were offensive once in a while.

Now: not only that but also I need to check to see if people are posting all of text and harmful links for virus, scams, porn and whatever... what if I ignore it? My fear is I could get a strike for not moderating the comments one by one (I'm not worrying now since my channel is small), or I could do what PewDiePie had done: disabled the comments.

From: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/2113767-why-does-everyone-hate-google/page__st__20#entry25961157

 

[Dex Luther]

Yeah, I took them off. The [comment] system doesn't work.

They've got rid of "flag for spam" which means that the comments can no longer self moderate. This is completely untrue. There's a "report spam option". Also, comments are ranked higher if they have more replies, no longer just thumbs. These combined mean that when person A decides to post a dodgy link persons B - Z will reply saying "dodgy link" "spam" " you" or whatever. This means that the spam GETS RANKED HIGHER. Unless people report it for spam.

Plus now people can edit links. Spammers can write "Best song ever" give it the artificial thumbs up and replies, real people will see it and upvote it to try and block out the hate and then, with a small edit, "best song ever" becomes "celebrity sex tape" and a link your virus blocker won't like. Yeah... unless you hold your mouse over the link and see where it goes first. Really, this is Internet 101. If people don't know this, then they've probably been clicking the dodgy links in their emails for ages now anyways. They aren't going to get a virus they probably don't already have.

On top of that not everyone uses their real name so people who do are vulnerable. "I no wre u go 2 skool" become a hell of a lot worse when, with a single click, they DO know where you go to school. And how is that different than people putting all their information on Facebook? Again, Internet 101 teaches you not to put all our information anywhere, and if you do make sure you're read and understand all the privacy options. I saw plenty of people with their real name as their user name before the change anyways, so I don't see what it's going to change.

With these new comments Google have created the greatest system for promoting spam and aiding cyber-bullying. It's remarkable. And how is this different than how it was before? Also it's a new system. It's going to be tweaked and refined over the next weeks, months and years.

And what should I do? I tried blacklisting every URL type possible but loads still get through. I can't moderate, I get 10,000+ comments a day. So, the only solution is to turn them off. I'm still popular enough for this to not hurt my search rankings too much but a lot of medium and small channels who want them off will be hurt by this. Really hurt. These are the big YouTubers of tomorrow and they really need to be helping them, not hindering them. Turn them off why? I'm not a channel owner, but from what I've been told by other channel owners is that their are filters you can use, so you should be able to block stuff like ".com", etc. Of course there's ways around that, but there were ways around it in the old system too. Also I'll repeat. It's a new system. It's going to be tweaked and refined over time.

YouTube is a community that Google is trying to turn into a social network with Google+. Unfortunately they are doing so in such a ham-handed way that it's going to hurt both in the long run. Youtube is a social media site. Google + is a social media site. Both are owned by Google. Yeah they're going to want to tie the two together. Just like Microsoft tied MSN messenger and Hotmail together, and now turned Hotmail into Outlook and incorporated Bing into that.

Oh and there's also this:

 

[Ezer'Arch]

....um, I fail to find an option to disable external links and limit the number of characters in a comment. So, still unhappy. Even in the ancient and bland phpBB forums back from 2004 had these trivial tools, I don't know why a multibillionaire company can't do it.

In my conclusion, what Google has done was to give more power and tools for trolls, hatters and scammers, I doubt they will use legit G+ profiles with real names, while people who legitimately use YT will with good mind use their real names and expose even more their identities (since not everyone is a net savvy).

Okay, Google will refine and improve the system for our safety. We can trust Google, right?

 

[Dex Luther]

....um, I fail to find an option to disable external links and limit the number of characters in a comment. So, still unhappy. Even in the ancient and bland phpBB forums back from 2004 had these trivial tools, I don't know why a multibillionaire company can't do it.

In my conclusion, what Google has done was to give more power and tools for trolls, hatters and scammers, I doubt they will use legit G+ profiles with real names, while people who legitimately use YT will with good mind use their real names and expose even more their identities (since not everyone is a net savvy).

Okay, Google will refine and improve the system for our safety. We can trust Google, right?

There's no reason to stop people from writing as much as they want. If you want people to have open discussion in your comments, it's pointless if it's limited to 500 characters. Try writing all your posts here in 500 characters or less from now on. If you fail to see the option than you also fail to read my previous post and fail to understand how to use the tools at your disposal effectively. Anyone clicking on links in profiles without hovering over it to see where it goes first has been clicking links in their emails for years and probably already have all the viruses and toolbars their going to get from it.

Here's a hint for ya: Blacklist: www., .com, .org, .net, .ru, http:...

TONS of people had their real names as your Youtube User Name anyways. Tons of people post their real name and tons of other information about themselves on Facebook. Get over the real names on G+ profiles. It changes nothing. Plus that's most of the information that will be found on most of the G+ profiles anyways. There's more than one Mike Smith in the world. A name alone will not make anyone any more vulnerable than someone opening up a phone book and picking names at random out of it.

Do you trust Mitch? He can easily get your IP address and do bad things, but he doesn't. So I don't see your point about trusting Google. If you're that untrusting of them, then why are you even still using their services, which is what Youtube is really. A service that they provide to you for free. They can change the service as much as they want just like your TV or phone company can change their service too.

 

[Ezer'Arch]

it's pointless if it's limited to 500 characters.

So is posting 67,339 characters posts. Is it so hard to reach a middle ground?

The old system was poor and mediocre (e.g. 500 char limit, no text formatting), it doesn't mean that simply opening the gates and letting all crap go wild will help. That was the most half-a**ed move they have done. Being big adds more responsibility, not the other way around. There's no excuse like "Hey, we almost control and shape entire Internet for our own good, let's shove broken, unfitting and unfinished features down people's throat, not only they don't have similar alternatives but also we give our service for free. They don't have no right to complain. They ought to accept as-is". Respect is gold.

Besides, there's no free service. They collect personal information, they use public infrastructure paid with our taxes, they are paid by telecoms that are also public concessions, the list goes on... Not because they don't charge directly our pockets that they are excused from being criticized. In fact, they are very well paid.

News:

Updated November 12: We know there are issues with spam and abuse in the new comments and we're working hard to fix them. We’ve already made a number of changes in the last 24 hours to reduce spammy comments and bad links, and we have more fixes coming soon.
We know how important comments are to you, and we’re making these improvements quickly so you can continue those conversations with your fans. Stay tuned for updates.

http://youtubecreator.blogspot.com.br/2013/11/turning-comments-into-conversations.html

 

[Dinammar]

seems legit

 

[OpelSpeedster]

Summed up in a picture.