Artificial gravity for your land base

Dumathoin

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Sep 29, 2014
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Hey all, just starting to get deep into this mod, and I'm loving it, I just got a suggestion I think would make for an awesome addition to the mod, and it's the Gravity Generator.

This would be a block that can be placed and interacted with. When you interact with it, it brings up a menu that allows you to change the gravity in the local area. This could also generate gravity in different directions, at varying intensities. I think this would let you make some pretty awesome space stations. You could build a two sided space platform for lots of space to work on stuff, you could build a sphere where you can walk on all sides as if it were the ground. I think this would be REALLY interesting, and could be used for plenty of awesome overworld builds as well.

I know this can't be the first time this has been though of, and I'm not entirely sure it's even possible in the engine, I really don't know much about creating mods or coding, so this might be incredibly hard to code, I don't know, but I think it would be an absolutely amazing addition, and Galacticraft seems like the perfect mod to include it. Please give me this! :D Love the mod!
 
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Coff coff a little bit from starminer... coff coff and gravity science... coff coff coff!!! but still very good, also if a ton of other people thought about that.

I think that, anyway, that will not be added, because makes totally useless the spin block, which crate gravity outward(also if you don't rotate and I don't know why you should want gravity outward), so delete the spin truster could make who coded it very angry!
 

Dwight

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Sep 12, 2014
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I think the problem is that Minecraft has an up and a down, even in space dimensions

That does not make the gravity generator a bad idea, but it does pose an issue with orientation, which will be the Steve Avatar which has an up and a down orientation that is fixed.
 

Vigilantecow

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Oct 5, 2013
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I think the problem is that Minecraft has an up and a down, even in space dimensions

That does not make the gravity generator a bad idea, but it does pose an issue with orientation, which will be the Steve Avatar which has an up and a down orientation that is fixed.
I believe the "StarMiner" mod does the whole orientation thing pretty well. http://popularmmos.com/starminer/
 

Dwight

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Sep 12, 2014
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and I was agreeing, I think it is a good idea too.

I would actualy prefer what they are attempting with spin gravity however, but I can see that deals with the same issues
 

radfast

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Apr 27, 2014
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This is (I think) the third time I've written this.

  • Scientifically accurate 'gravity' (actually centrifugal force a.k.a. G-force, and yes that's a real thing if you are in a rotating frame of reference) would press you outwards against the walls of the spinning station. I will call that "sideways gravity", it's a label so you guys can understand what I am talking about here.
  • Making the space station rotate vertically (like a bicycle wheel) is not an answer, because then the gravity direction would need to be down/up/sideways as the space station rotates.
  • I can make sideways gravity for players in about half an hour. That is, I can rotate the 'Steve' player model. We already do that for players in rockets if you tilt the rocket in flight using WASD controls - try it in 1st person view and 3rd person view, you will see. I can rotate all the other player models, mobs and other entities the same way. I can make an outwards force to press you against the walls so that you 'fall' in that direction.
  • What I cannot do easily is rotate Minecraft blocks so they are on their side. So if Steve stands on the outer walls due to the sideways gravity, and the Minecraft blocks do not rotate, then from Steve's eyes everything in his base will be on its side. No big deal for some types of blocks but it becomes a problem for other types of blocks: in vanilla: water, flowing water, lava, flowing lava, crops growing in farmland, chests, furnaces, enchantment tables, bookshelves, and more. Add to that the blocks and liquids and machines in all the mods which people might use with Galacticraft. I will call that the "standing on the walls" problem. It will just not look great, it will look to the player as though he is the odd one out, he is standing on the wall of a normal base. Nobody will want to make a home in a base where you are always standing on the walls.
  • StarMine has a hilarious-for-15-minutes answer to this. It lets you stand on the walls. It has special StarBeds which are rotated sideways so the bed is standing the correct way up when Steve-standing-on-the-wall looks at it. I think it also offers StarSaplings and StarFlowers. But that's all it has. No Star-water, Star-lava, Star-crops, Star-chests, Star-furnaces, Star-enchantment tables, and Star-every_modded_block_which_has_an_orientation.
  • I can do better: I can rotate all the blocks in a whole chunk or a whole room, so the 'bottom' of the room is positioned where the outer wall of the space station is. I already coded that in Galacticraft for testing purposes. It works, it's actually awesome (but the code is currently disabled so you can't play it). I hoped I could solve the "standing on the walls" problem this way. But I can't.
  • The plan was to have the space station divided into 4 quadrants with sideways gravity in each quadrant, so the gravity pointing in NES or W directions according to which quadrant it is - so approximately outwards. I can make that work in each quadrant. But it doesn't work overall, the chunks or rooms or corridors or whatever will not join up properly to their neighbours at the chunk edges. Blocks in Minecraft need to join up sometimes - for example a machine with wires, a tank with walls, a tree with its leaves, farmland near water. If it was just the Galacticraft machines I could fix this, with a bit of work - so the "is this machine connected to a wire" check could be made to understand the different quadrants in space stations. But I can't fix it for vanilla blocks, nor - more importantly - for blocks in other mods.
  • I thought about having strangely shaped chunks at the quadrant edges - so with unmineable blocks (like bedrock) in all the places where Minecraft would have problems connecting blocks to their neighbours (which is a lot of places). I can maybe do that. It would mean that there have to be unmineable, diagonally sloping, walls in a 'X' pattern radiating out from the centre of the space station and covering up the quadrant boundaries. Even if the player didn't build any part of the station there, those walls would be like a framework which you always have to have - we can make them black I guess. (The walls would extend out a number of chunks depending on how many chunks out from the centre the player builds.)
  • That's kind of a shame though, it's a clunky and ugly solution and will affect players' ability to build freely. That's not very 'Minecraft'.
  • I cannot see any other solution which will allow sideways gravity. But maybe someone can think of a better solution?
  • If we cannot make sideways gravity, then the only other option is to have downwards gravity in space stations. The G-force would increase as your radius from the centre of rotation increases (which is scientifically accurate) but the direction of the gravity would not be accurate. This is the solution we are currently looking at adopting. Instead of talking about it, I could just put it into the next build and see if people like it or not.
  • The main problem with downwards gravity is the player motion will be all messed up if you break the floor of the space station and fall through - you ought to be flung "outwards" if you fall off a spinning space station, not downwards.
 
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radfast

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I thought about having strangely shaped chunks at the quadrant edges - so with unmineable blocks (like bedrock) in all the places where Minecraft would have problems connecting blocks to their neighbours (which is a lot of places). I can maybe do that. It would mean that there have to be unmineable, diagonally sloping, walls in a 'X' pattern radiating out from the centre of the space station and covering up the quadrant boundaries. Even if the player didn't build any part of the station there, those walls would be like a framework which you always have to have - we can make them black I guess. (The walls would extend out a number of chunks depending on how many chunks out from the centre the player builds.)
Hmm. Maybe I could make the X walls out of air. It would be a special unmineable kind of air so you can't build anything else there, but at least you wouldn't see walls. Players could then leave the X walls open for corridors connecting one quadrant to the next quadrant, or could cover the walls with real blocks for sensible-looking rooms. Maybe this is possible. I will test it and see.
 

Ezer'Arch

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I think it also offers StarSaplings and StarFlowers. But that's all it has. No Star-water, Star-lava, Star-crops, Star-chests, Star-furnaces, Star-enchantment tables, and Star-every_modded_block_which_has_an_orientation.
I'm Star-ting to Star-think that Star-people Star-make too much Star-deal out of Star-it. Too much Star for my Star-taste. :)

~Ezer'Starch

(calm down StarMine lovers, I'm just kidding)
 
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Dwight

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Sep 12, 2014
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Thank you for clarifying ( yet again ) I was on a totally wrong track on what the issue is

hmmmm the only thing I don’t like is unmineable spaces in a space station, and I am afriad invisible unmineable blocks is worse, as too limiting

what about opposites? what if it was north and south ( so to speak ) but not east and west? That the inertial force was pushing toward on a spinning space station? The there would be no issue of having to do side walls and connecting on a corner.

realistic no.. but this is minecraft after all... dirt floating in mid air on the overworld isn’t very realistic either.
 

JakXLT

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May 16, 2014
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This is (I think) the third time I've written this.

  • Scientifically accurate 'gravity' (actually centrifugal force a.k.a. G-force, and yes that's a real thing if you are in a rotating frame of reference) would press you outwards against the walls of the spinning station. I will call that "sideways gravity", it's a label so you guys can understand what I am talking about here.
  • Making the space station rotate vertically (like a bicycle wheel) is not an answer, because then the gravity direction would need to be down/up/sideways as the space station rotates.
  • I can make sideways gravity for players in about half an hour. That is, I can rotate the 'Steve' player model. We already do that for players in rockets if you tilt the rocket in flight using WASD controls - try it in 1st person view and 3rd person view, you will see. I can rotate all the other player models, mobs and other entities the same way. I can make an outwards force to press you against the walls so that you 'fall' in that direction.
  • What I cannot do easily is rotate Minecraft blocks so they are on their side. So if Steve stands on the outer walls due to the sideways gravity, and the Minecraft blocks do not rotate, then from Steve's eyes everything in his base will be on its side. No big deal for some types of blocks but it becomes a problem for other types of blocks: in vanilla: water, flowing water, lava, flowing lava, crops growing in farmland, chests, furnaces, enchantment tables, bookshelves, and more. Add to that the blocks and liquids and machines in all the mods which people might use with Galacticraft. I will call that the "standing on the walls" problem. It will just not look great, it will look to the player as though he is the odd one out, he is standing on the wall of a normal base. Nobody will want to make a home in a base where you are always standing on the walls.
  • StarMine has a hilarious-for-15-minutes answer to this. It lets you stand on the walls. It has special StarBeds which are rotated sideways so the bed is standing the correct way up when Steve-standing-on-the-wall looks at it. I think it also offers StarSaplings and StarFlowers. But that's all it has. No Star-water, Star-lava, Star-crops, Star-chests, Star-furnaces, Star-enchantment tables, and Star-every_modded_block_which_has_an_orientation.
  • I can do better: I can rotate all the blocks in a whole chunk or a whole room, so the 'bottom' of the room is positioned where the outer wall of the space station is. I already coded that in Galacticraft for testing purposes. It works, it's actually awesome (but the code is currently disabled so you can't play it). I hoped I could solve the "standing on the walls" problem this way. But I can't.
  • The plan was to have the space station divided into 4 quadrants with sideways gravity in each quadrant, so the gravity pointing in NES or W directions according to which quadrant it is - so approximately outwards. I can make that work in each quadrant. But it doesn't work overall, the chunks or rooms or corridors or whatever will not join up properly to their neighbours at the chunk edges. Blocks in Minecraft need to join up sometimes - for example a machine with wires, a tank with walls, a tree with its leaves, farmland near water. If it was just the Galacticraft machines I could fix this, with a bit of work - so the "is this machine connected to a wire" check could be made to understand the different quadrants in space stations. But I can't fix it for vanilla blocks, nor - more importantly - for blocks in other mods.
  • I thought about having strangely shaped chunks at the quadrant edges - so with unmineable blocks (like bedrock) in all the places where Minecraft would have problems connecting blocks to their neighbours (which is a lot of places). I can maybe do that. It would mean that there have to be unmineable, diagonally sloping, walls in a 'X' pattern radiating out from the centre of the space station and covering up the quadrant boundaries. Even if the player didn't build any part of the station there, those walls would be like a framework which you always have to have - we can make them black I guess. (The walls would extend out a number of chunks depending on how many chunks out from the centre the player builds.)
  • That's kind of a shame though, it's a clunky and ugly solution and will affect players' ability to build freely. That's not very 'Minecraft'.
  • I cannot see any other solution which will allow sideways gravity. But maybe someone can think of a better solution?
  • If we cannot make sideways gravity, then the only other option is to have downwards gravity in space stations. The G-force would increase as your radius from the centre of rotation increases (which is scientifically accurate) but the direction of the gravity would not be accurate. This is the solution we are currently looking at adopting. Instead of talking about it, I could just put it into the next build and see if people like it or not.
  • The main problem with downwards gravity is the player motion will be all messed up if you break the floor of the space station and fall through - you ought to be flung "outwards" if you fall off a spinning space station, not downwards.
I don't think there is another solution to making sideways gravity, but I do have a way a gravity generator could work.

Here's a snippet from the wikipedia article

A similar effect to gravity has been created through diamagnetism. It requires magnets with extremely powerful magnetic fields. Such devices have been made that were able to levitate at most a small mouse and thus produced a 1 g field to cancel the Earth's. Sufficiently powerful magnets require either expensive cryogenics to keep them superconductive, or require several megawatts of power.

With such extremely strong magnetic fields, safety for use with humans is unclear. In addition, it would involve avoiding any ferromagnetic or paramagnetic materials near the strong magnetic field required for diamagnetism to be evident.

Facilities using diamagnetism may prove workable for laboratories simulating low gravity conditions here on Earth. The mouse was levitated against Earth's gravity, creating a condition similar to microgravity. Lower forces may also be generated to simulate a condition similar to lunar or Martian gravity with small model organisms.
So the technology to create an effect similar to gravity is already there just at a much smaller scale. It is a repellent force though, so the gravity generator block would have to be placed at the highest point of the station to create downwards G-forces. It would also require huge amounts of power running into it as well as coolants as shown by this diagram here

 

MoltonMontro

Member
Nov 4, 2013
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I don't think there is another solution to making sideways gravity, but I do have a way a gravity generator could work.

Here's a snippet from the wikipedia article



So the technology to create an effect similar to gravity is already there just at a much smaller scale. It is a repellent force though, so the gravity generator block would have to be placed at the highest point of the station to create downwards G-forces. It would also require huge amounts of power running into it as well as coolants as shown by this diagram here

Are we talking a multi-block structure, or a single block with pipes to import coolant?
 

JakXLT

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May 16, 2014
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Are we talking a multi-block structure, or a single block with pipes to import coolant?
A multi-block structure would probably make more sense, but if micdoodle and radfast decide to roll with this idea, it's ultimately up to them how to get the job done.
 

radfast

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Apr 27, 2014
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Hey guys, sorry I hijacked the thread with a piece about sideways gravity in space stations, it wasn't really even the right place for that (but it helps me to get the ideas written down in a logical way).

Thank you @JakXLT for bringing the thread back on topic.

We have short-range teleporters so why not gravity generators, I guess. I'll talk to micdoodle8 about it. They might not be seen until GC4. But I can see the hilariousness of a gravity generator suddenly being switched off. Our freefall code would need a bit more work, I think you'd want players, mobs, items and liquids all to start floating about in mid-air when that happens.